Any CM perspectives on false pregnancy?
Marnee
Question Details
False Pregnancy
by
marneemadsen
-
July 21, 2009
Any CM perspectives on false pregnancy?
Marnee
Replies
by
naturevet
July 21, 2009
Hi Marnee,
In general, an animal with 'adverse effects' of steroidal hormones is often a Damp Heat issue, regardless whether that steroid was cortisol, estrogen, etc. So I'd explore that idea, since progesterone is a steroid, and try out something basic like Si Miao San. Plus, the basic symptomology - increased fat deposits and weight gain - is a Dampness picture, just as it is in pregnant women. Pregnant women even get another Damp trait - heart burn - as well as the appetite increases etc. So I'd go with a Damp Heat approach.
Steve
In general, an animal with 'adverse effects' of steroidal hormones is often a Damp Heat issue, regardless whether that steroid was cortisol, estrogen, etc. So I'd explore that idea, since progesterone is a steroid, and try out something basic like Si Miao San. Plus, the basic symptomology - increased fat deposits and weight gain - is a Dampness picture, just as it is in pregnant women. Pregnant women even get another Damp trait - heart burn - as well as the appetite increases etc. So I'd go with a Damp Heat approach.
Steve
by
marneemadsen
July 22, 2009
Thanks Steve,
I have a 13 month old Toller I have seen since she was young. She had (and continues to have) a lavendar, dry tongue, dryish coat. She started with a strong superficial pulse that was a little wiry deep, but felt empty under the strong superficial sense. Her active pts have consistently been GB pts and BL 23. She is a crazy puppy, so I am lucky to get needles in, and really hard to do pulses at the same time.
I called her Blood Def, Kid Jing Def, as she also had bite problems and didn't look right as puppy. I thought due to the consistent GB points and pulse (which moved a little deeper and still wiry with tx) that she had a shao yang pattern maybe from vaccines.
She is itchy along flanks, GB channel and worse in morning. I had learned morning pruritis was Blood Def - do you agree?
Her PCV is 40 and low Liver enzymes.
She has had the best tongue and pulse on XCHT + QJ or YJ plus LWDHW. I have not seen any signs of Damp Heat with her until this false pregnancy, but I did try CHSWT to see if that would improve the prurtitis, and maybe uncovered some Damp? It did not change the itch, but helped with overall color and moisture of coat.
Do you see any patterns around GB and KID for youngsters that I am missing?
I am thinking about going back to LWDHW...what do you think?
Thanks!
Marnee
I have a 13 month old Toller I have seen since she was young. She had (and continues to have) a lavendar, dry tongue, dryish coat. She started with a strong superficial pulse that was a little wiry deep, but felt empty under the strong superficial sense. Her active pts have consistently been GB pts and BL 23. She is a crazy puppy, so I am lucky to get needles in, and really hard to do pulses at the same time.
I called her Blood Def, Kid Jing Def, as she also had bite problems and didn't look right as puppy. I thought due to the consistent GB points and pulse (which moved a little deeper and still wiry with tx) that she had a shao yang pattern maybe from vaccines.
She is itchy along flanks, GB channel and worse in morning. I had learned morning pruritis was Blood Def - do you agree?
Her PCV is 40 and low Liver enzymes.
She has had the best tongue and pulse on XCHT + QJ or YJ plus LWDHW. I have not seen any signs of Damp Heat with her until this false pregnancy, but I did try CHSWT to see if that would improve the prurtitis, and maybe uncovered some Damp? It did not change the itch, but helped with overall color and moisture of coat.
Do you see any patterns around GB and KID for youngsters that I am missing?
I am thinking about going back to LWDHW...what do you think?
Thanks!
Marnee
by
naturevet
July 22, 2009
Hi Marnee,
Definitely treat according to what you're seeing in the way of an obvious TCM diagnosis. I'm not clear from you summary if you actually did see some Damp Heat in the false pregnancy, and if it is still going on. If not, though, or if it has resolved, always go with what you're seeing. Morning pruritis is not very specific to any particular Chinese diagnosis as far as I have been able to tell. If there's clear Damp and Blood deficiency, think Dang Gui Shao Yao San. If she's back to Yin deficiency, LWDHW is fine, although a lavendar tongue is more consistent with BWDHW.
Hopefully this answer has what you're looking for in it somewhere,
Steve
Definitely treat according to what you're seeing in the way of an obvious TCM diagnosis. I'm not clear from you summary if you actually did see some Damp Heat in the false pregnancy, and if it is still going on. If not, though, or if it has resolved, always go with what you're seeing. Morning pruritis is not very specific to any particular Chinese diagnosis as far as I have been able to tell. If there's clear Damp and Blood deficiency, think Dang Gui Shao Yao San. If she's back to Yin deficiency, LWDHW is fine, although a lavendar tongue is more consistent with BWDHW.
Hopefully this answer has what you're looking for in it somewhere,
Steve
by
marneemadsen
July 22, 2009
HI Steve,
She is still in her false pregnancy - glands swollen and she has lashed out at the older dog in the house (unusual for her), so I think I have missed some heat signs. I assumed the lavendar tongue was from the GB/TH obstruction, but maybe something else?
After reading your comments, I am thinking about SMS + DG and continuing XCHT, as that has helped throughout.
Still curious about the GB and Kidney points in a puppy if there is anything else to think about there.
See you soon! Looking forward to class.
Marnee
She is still in her false pregnancy - glands swollen and she has lashed out at the older dog in the house (unusual for her), so I think I have missed some heat signs. I assumed the lavendar tongue was from the GB/TH obstruction, but maybe something else?
After reading your comments, I am thinking about SMS + DG and continuing XCHT, as that has helped throughout.
Still curious about the GB and Kidney points in a puppy if there is anything else to think about there.
See you soon! Looking forward to class.
Marnee
by
naturevet
July 23, 2009
Hi again,
Adding Dang Gui to SMS is certainly a good option to pursue.
As well, if Damp seems 'out of character' for this dog, then another option is to look at Xiao Yao San. It treats the same themes you've seen in the past, as well as 'breast distension' and irritability in humans. It is a hormone balancer as well, helping not just with estrogen issues, but also even conditions with excesses of other hormones, such as PCOS in humans (where testosterone is an issue). Given your description of this dog, I like this treatment plan idea even better.
As for GB and KI points in a puppy, it makes sense. Essentially, the TB (which is accessed via GB points) plays a fundamental role in the strength of the Kidney Qi, which in turn is vitally important in a young developing animal. So Kidney tonics that seem to fit, plus XCHT derivatives, are generally appropriate and would be expected to be broadly beneficial. Who knows - you may stave off some hip dysplasia.
See you soon,
Steve
Adding Dang Gui to SMS is certainly a good option to pursue.
As well, if Damp seems 'out of character' for this dog, then another option is to look at Xiao Yao San. It treats the same themes you've seen in the past, as well as 'breast distension' and irritability in humans. It is a hormone balancer as well, helping not just with estrogen issues, but also even conditions with excesses of other hormones, such as PCOS in humans (where testosterone is an issue). Given your description of this dog, I like this treatment plan idea even better.
As for GB and KI points in a puppy, it makes sense. Essentially, the TB (which is accessed via GB points) plays a fundamental role in the strength of the Kidney Qi, which in turn is vitally important in a young developing animal. So Kidney tonics that seem to fit, plus XCHT derivatives, are generally appropriate and would be expected to be broadly beneficial. Who knows - you may stave off some hip dysplasia.
See you soon,
Steve
by
marneemadsen
July 23, 2009
Thanks a bunch, Steve. That does seem to fit this dog better.
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