Question Details
Neurodegenerative Disorder In A Dog
by equinesportsmed - September 13, 2020    View Case Report
I started treating Bode, a 5 year old Greyhound, in March for pain and ataxia. (see case under this name) He responded very well to acupuncture, manual therapy and Bu Gan Tang, but still had off days, especially when the weather patterns shifted. He seemed particularly susceptible to windy days and super hot days.

By late spring he stabilized and I did not hear from owner until mid August. At that point he was getting weak and more ataxic, poor appetite, knocking over in front. I did a house call and he responded brilliantly to manual therapy and acupuncture. Sept 1, I got a call that he had crashed again-- very painful and ataxic. When I went to see him, his back was very roached, neck low and was much worse after I adjusted him-- could barely support himself on forelimbs. Laid him down for acupuncture and treated KI and GB points. Pulse was toned, tongue fairly normal looking. Owner said he had been having episodes of getting "hot" in the evenings, almost like a fever, could not stop panting. Also told me (which I had not known previously) that he took 20 mg pred daily, and that she was only giving BGT once a day-- had mistook the instructions long ago. That's about 0.6 mg/kg on the pred. I encouraged her to go BID on the BGT, get some blood work to retest for infectious disease, and also a thyroid panel because his skin was dry and he was losing hair on his haunches. By that night he was much better in balance and reduced pain.

Later that week, it occurred to me that he might benefit from Chai Ge Jie Ji Tang, but it was our Labor Day holiday by then and ATTH was closed, so it wasn't until Friday just past that he got the herbs.

Today I got an email from the client that he has suddenly declined a lot in the past few days-- can barely keep his legs under him, knuckles under badly, is miserable. When I spoke to her later in the day, he had improved a bit and was resting.

Here's the thing-- I had noted in the spring, that he was worse in the cold wind, and his downturns always seem to come with changes in weather. The last few days have been awesome sailing-- a front came through on Thursday and the wind has been wild since then. Finally calmed down this afternoon. Bode was diagnosed by the neurologist last winter with cervical myelopathy, and indeed, is primarily affected in forelimbs. When I first saw him, he was classic Liver Yin Def, and responded really well to Bu Gan Tang, even at half dose. But now I'm wondering if his destabilization is strictly Wind related-- literally he crashes when there are high winds. Can that be treated prophylactically with herbs or AP? I never tried him on Du Huo because he seems to suffer a lot with the heat. Not sure where to turn next. He's only been on Chai Ge Jie Ji Tang for a few days, and I was unsure whether to keep him on Bu Gan Tang at the same time. His tongue is no longer lavender and his pulse was toned but not wiry last week.

Help! (I think the client, though devoted, may be reaching the point of thinking his QOL is too diminished.)
Replies
by naturevet
September 16, 2020
Hi there,

If he is on CGJJT now, best continue for a few more days. For a dog that is markedly worse after adjustments, this suggests subacute spinal cord inflammation, making it a pretty good choice. It's drying and internalizing, though, so if the problem is Wind invasion from Blood deficiency, it won't particularly help. Hence, don't try it too long without checking in with the owner if the dog is that bad and the owner is nearing the end of her rope.

If it doesn't help, try the DHJST. Note that it is easy to figure out if that is the right formula using acupuncture. Just sedate BL 40. If the pulse improves, then with that history of response to Blood tonics, DHJST is very likely to resolve the problem. If the dog is handy to you, maybe check again now and save yourself some suspense.

For Blood deficient dogs irritated by adjustments, use liberal amounts of Valerian extract as a muscle relaxant. That's where all the pain is coming from in this type of patient - muscle spasms. Antispasmodics may thus help a lot, as well as gabapentin, if acupuncture confirms DHJST is the way to go, but the patient needs some extra support while the formula is kicking in.

CGJJT dogs respond to tonification of GB points.

Lastly, make sure the dog doesn't have a fever or any indication of discospondylitis. That is an exquisitely painful condition which presents in the same manner. It can chronically plague dogs that previously responded to disc disease treatments, leading you to never suspect the diagnosis has changed. For that condition, we use antibiotics, CGJJT plus Hoxsey and Boneset. Radiographs may identify small lucencies in the discs or endplates that would confirm the diagnosis, but may be too small to be seen, so the condition cannot be ruled out by a normal radiograph. A high body temperature would make this more of a consideration

Hope that helps you out!!

Steve
by equinesportsmed
September 18, 2020
I saw the dog again the day before you posted your reply. At that time, he had been fairly stable-- the downturn after adjustment was only for an hour or so the previous time. This week his pulse was fairly toned, but not wiry, tongue looked slightly pale w possible purple tinge before treatment, then bright pink after. I tried retrofitting my hind paresis strategy to the front end-- EAP of PC 8 and GV 14, and was more gentle with chiropractic mobilization. He didn't look any worse after treatment and this morning I got comment from client : "Bode is better, and I suspect that the Chai Ge Jie Gi Tang is making a positive impact. He rests more comfortably. He is not having those panting sessions. He has had only one mild hour long heat event". At this point, he has been on the CGJJT for about a week.

The client wants to know whether she should continue the Bu Gan Tang alongside the CGJJT. It really seemed to help him in the spring, so wondering if he is constitutionally weak in Liver channel and we should continue low dosing him year-round with a boost in the spring transition months. Thoughts?
by naturevet
September 19, 2020
For now, whatever he is on, you should continue. It's conceivable a Yin and Blood tonic could help the CGJJT do its work, by helping it internalize and anchor Yang through its action on bolstering Yin. It also has a muscle relaxant and astringent property that can help, too. So if he is on both formulas, continue them

If, however, he has been off the BGT, maybe don't start it yet while we are still assessing the CGJJT.

Once we get into deep winter, continued Blood tonification is probably a good idea. It may help prevent issues next spring

Steve
by equinesportsmed
September 20, 2020
From the client this morning:
"Just wanted you to know that yesterday while I was making his bed, which is in a very large canvas crate, I found not one, but three tennis balls. That’s good because he used to love collecting them and hadn’t done that for a while. "
by equinesportsmed
September 20, 2020
From Owner on 9/20/20:
Just wanted you to know that yesterday while I was making his bed, which is in a very large canvas crate, I found not one, but three tennis balls. That’s good because he used to love collecting them and hadn’t done that for a while.
by naturevet
September 22, 2020
Yay!!
by equinesportsmed
September 22, 2020
LOL, the very next day she was texting me a dozen times about an evening episode of heat and pain. It's such a weird-ass case! I had her pop him a high dose of CBD, and by the next day he was better, but I've asked her to keep a diary of these episodes to see if any pattern can emerge.
by equinesportsmed
September 25, 2020
So, despite being generally improved on CGJJT, the patient continues to have episodes of shaking, some of which seem to be painful and some not. From the client: "Just yesterday I skipped his daily 20 mg prednisone. He had an awful day, really bad.

The “shaking” is ongoing. He cries out sometimes when they are happening. Other times when I’m stroking him, he is shaking and doesn’t seem uncomfortable. HOWEVER I remain VERY CONCERNED about the issue of pain with him. I have known many dogs who have been incredibly stoic. It’s not fair, and I do not want to keep him going for any selfish reasons if he’s suffering."

Now I find this greyhound to be fairly weeny, not stoic-- he screams when I adjust his neck or touch his butt. She's been giving him 20 mg pred a day for months and months. She's afraid to stop. Now that's not a particularly high dose for a 75# dog, but wondering if it could be countering the effects of the herbs, now that he is off the yin tonic (Bu Gan Tang)? I don't see a pattern yet, but I've asked her to keep a diary. I thought previously bad days were windy days, but yesterday was pretty calm here.
by naturevet
September 25, 2020
Why not try some antibiotics and see if he improves. Like Clavamox. If he does, he has discospondylitis for sure. If he doesn't, especially when on those herbs, then we can rule it out, I think

S
by equinesportsmed
October 8, 2020
So, began clavamox on Sept 26, and for first five days it really seemed to help-- no more episodes. But he's gone downhill after that-- mostly stays in his crate and whimpers other than meals and walks. Knuckling over a lot, difficulty posturing to urinate. Falls a lot. Hard to say whether his hiding in crate is pain or because his neurologic function is so compromised. Husband thinks he should go back on BGT, wife cries herself to sleep thinking he has no quality of life left. He's on 875 mg BID-- he's around 34 kg. So high end of dose range. Still on CGJJT, curcumin & boswellia, and CBD for pain. I just don't know that I am doing him any more good at this point. After almost two weeks on antibiotics, would you expect to see further improvement?
by naturevet
October 8, 2020
We used CGJJT, Hoxsey with Boneset, and full doses of Clavamox. We stopped any warming and moving herbs since the goal is to create an icepack for the spine.

If he were my patient, I would go see him, test response to GB/Shao Yang points, and if the pulse improved, use the above three items together. Only once he was a lot better, then I would integrate the tonics like BGT. An x-ray might also confirm the diagnosis

Once you have certainty around the diagnosis, then doubt is removed, and it is a lot less stressful to hang in there. Antibiotics alone don't work well for this condition, and CGJJT is not enough of a pain reliever to help, but adding in Boneset and a muscle relaxant like Valerian can help, in addition to your favourite pain killer. As he improves, you can drop things

Resolution, accompanied by steady improvement in symptoms, can take a few weeks and is naturally not a straight line. But if he really responded for even a few days, it's not likely to be anything else, and is treatable with the cocktail above. I'd give him one last chance and treat him aggressively
by equinesportsmed
October 8, 2020
Thanks-- will work on that plan.
by equinesportsmed
October 12, 2020
I saw Bode today. When I saw him at midday, he looked fairly good other than a base-wide stance, but they said he had been knuckling over and falling in the morning. Tongue was medium pink, pulse was deep and weak. I did not appreciate any change after treating BL 19, or after treating BL 23. Then I went ahead and put in all the Bladder points (19, 23, 27, 40) and the pulse really came up strongly. I added GB34, LV13, LI11, LI16 and LV3 on his up side, KI3 on down and he zonked out. They are starting him on the Hoxsey w boneset today. I calculated a dose of 1.25 t BID based upon the dosing in your book, but now I am wondering if it should be half that, like for the granules. And I just was seeing now about the valerian. Do you have a preparation you recommend? Could they get the same results with methocarbamol?
by naturevet
October 12, 2020
The Hoxsey with Boneset we use is the NPHC tincture. I don't know if tablets or ground dried herbs have the punch you're looking for. If in doubt, dose heavily. For tincture, we use 0.2 ml per 5 lbs BID, probably at least about 1.5 ml at a time for this dog

For Valerian tincture, we use the same. For capsules, they should give a human-sized dose and be doing it twice a day. I haven't used methocarbamol but it will probably help if you want to do that instead

Hopefully he gets somewhere!

S
by equinesportsmed
November 8, 2020
OK, after last note above, I added Hoxsey with Boneset and Valerian. Plus have been needling and adjusting weekly and he has slowly been coming around. As of last Wednesday (11/4/20) he no longer was falling over when turning, could do full body shake, was barely knocking at all, was able to go down steps without falling and was generally more playful and engaged. Around two weeks ago, they had some cranio-sacral work done on him-- 3 treatments-- which the practitioner said was about some deep seated PTSD from a dog attack when he was young. This coincided with the latest changes I had made plus serious weekly treatment no matter what. So, who knows what helped him turn the corner.

Last visit, 11/4, pulse was strong before treatment-- usually it is quite weak and then comes up with the needles. His coat was improved-- less dander, softer. He allowed me to manipulate his neck without hyperesthesia.

So-- how long to keep up the Clavamox? It's been close to 6 weeks. Also, he has been on 20 mg/day prednisone since last winter, prescribed by their allopathic vet-- owner has been afraid to take him off. We discussed starting to wean him down if he remains stable for another week. Would you agree with that? On the herbal side, he continues to take Chai Ge Jie Ji Tang and Hoxsey with Boneset. We discussed whether to wait until winter to go back to his liver tonic, Bu Gan Tang. If his Liver Deficiency signs continue to improve, maybe that won't be necessary? Whew!! So grateful that something is starting to work for this guy!!
by naturevet
November 10, 2020
Hi there,

I'm very glad they toughed it out. You as well!

The previous Blood deficiency appears to have been due to internal Heat, given that his coat is improving and all you're doing are cooling and drying treatments. My tendency would be to persist until he is largely back to normal.

Note the pred is cooling and moistening, so removing it may not be a good idea just yet, if the above is true

The pulse suggests the pathogen might be moving to the exterior, if it is becoming superficial as well as stronger. If that is the case, sedating BL 40 may help, and the next step if THAT is the case is to add in some Tai Yang herbs.

If the pulse is deep yet strong, responding only to Shao Yang points, then the next formula is probably going to be Xiao Chai Hu Tang. I guess continue to monitor until you have those answers, but for me, I would be tempted to just persist with the current protocol. The changing pulse tells you that all this stuff won't be needed forever, which is hopefully going to be consolation enough for now

Steve
by equinesportsmed
November 11, 2020
Thanks for your support on this. I guess he is also benefiting from the change of season.
by equinesportsmed
February 1, 2021
All fall I had to acupuncture/adjust Bode every week-10 days for pain and neural dysfunction, but have not even seen him since late November. Huge improvement since starting a new cannabis formula I developed with high doses of CBG, which specifically addresses neural inflammation. Back in mid-December, I had them discontinue the Clavamox, and no return of pain or heat since then. Also did not renew Hoxsey/boneset earlier in January when they ran out. No issues reported.

He is continuing on Chai Ge Jie Ji Tang, and I am concerned about long term use, which Nate reminded me of yesterday. Now that we are approaching the turn of the season, back to a Shao Yang transition, wondering whether it should be shifted, or wait until the true spring? He has not been weak or deficient this winter at all. Thoughts?
by naturevet
February 2, 2021
Hi there!

Congratulations on your success!

I've seen CGJJT used long term (e.g. in horses) with no adverse effects at all. However, in theory, Minor Bupleurum might be a better choice for spring. I think in this case I would gradually reduce the dose and watch for any setbacks. Of course, I use the pulse and its response to acupuncture to tell me if Yang must now be released, or if it still needs to be internalized by CGJJT.

Hope that helps

Steve
by equinesportsmed
February 2, 2021
Is this the correct logic: wiry pulse softens in response to tonification of GB point= internalize, keep on CGJJT; no change, improves with sedati And to release, use XCHT or a Tai Yang formula?
by naturevet
February 2, 2021
Deep toned (full) pulses indicate Yang is inside and needs to move out. Sedate Shao Yang points to weaken the Shao Yang, which functions as a Yang internalization pump. When you do that, the deep full toned pulse will moderate as Yang is allowed to move to the exterior. If this happens, then some form of XCHT is indicated.

Superficial pulses, whether toned or toneless, indicate Yang is on the exterior. Strengthen the Shao Yang 'pump' by tonifying GB points to move Yang inwards, creating a more mid-depth pulse. If this happens, CGJJT is indicated

S
by equinesportsmed
February 2, 2021
Thanks!!
by equinesportsmed
April 22, 2022
They say he has adapted well to his front end weakness--maybe is better, maybe is better compensated. He no longer falls like he used to. He takes more interest in the world, and enjoys life and nature. He is able to move his neck both up and down. Can do a small series of steps but needs help with longer stairs. They say he is unable to flex his spine, and poops walking, without posturing. Appetite is still iffy-- she hand feeds him every day.

Owner got in touch because recently he began avoiding walking on hard surfaces. Feet are not sensitive to palpation. He growled when I palpated his mid-thoracic region and warned me again when I was feeling the para-sacral muscles near his tail.

His tongue is bright pink, pulse was rapid and soft, easily compressible but even. His coat is better now than when we were treating him previously for Liver Yin deficiency. His extremities are neither hot nor cold.

I am wondering if he would benefit from a treatment that would help move Qi to his core-- he probably has a good deal of spondylosis at this point, but is otherwise doing well. No idea what is making his feet sensitive-- can find no obvious cause, and they are not sensitive to manipulation.

I was speaking to his people about Shao Yang disharmonies, and how moving Yang caudally and interior-wise can be problematic. They confirmed that he tends to be worse in the transitional seasons. But the pulse is most definitely not a Shao Yang pulse. Thoughts?
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