Question Details
Probiotics
by bfellis - January 7, 2023
What is your go to probiotic? We have used VSL with some success? But not always complete resolution of clinical signs. What are your feelings about the probiotic strains that can help with behavior/mood , skin integrity, bowel integrity? VSL is marketing these refrigerated options. But they all have corn starch in them. Just trying to heal my Shao Yang dog (2 1/2 yr GSP -BCS 4.5/9! with amazing muscle tone and mass ) who is on XCH w/ QJ (3/4 tsp bid ) and BZYQT at same dose (rounded large scoop) but is still developing a tendinitis in his patellar ligaments and a medial buttress , bilateral without palpable instability. His feces are larger than our other 3, so he seems to have some trouble with assimilation? His tongue is lavender and dry with cracks and thin white coat. Pulse is broad, full and mid deep. Completely softens with pressure on GB 30. My wife (a DVM , CVSMT, CCRT) is starting to lose faith in my herbs. Should I increase doses? He is fed 50% raw -slightly cooked in water, 10-20% home cooked grass fed beef/organs/green veggies and remainder Purina
DRM whitefish kibble w/ Stella and Chewy baked kibble- is this the problem? Do we need to try him off all kibble? He is 85 lbs. Tendons and ligaments seem to be inflamed chronically in this dog. He was also the case I had asked about earlier -but got on a tangent here. I’ll copy this and post under his case as well. Thank you!!

Brett
Replies
by naturevet
January 14, 2023
That's a lot of questions for a simple subject line, Brett!

Just curious what magical drug combo your wife was advocating that would cure all your dog's ills....?

To get further with your dog's joints, you may need to pair with a Blood Mover like Xiao Huo Luo Dan. I'd give that a try

Regarding corn starch in the probiotics, if it's not a major amount, then it's probably okay. Probiotics do best with a fermentable carb food source, anyway, and your dog is already on kibble, so the added starch exposure may not be significant enough to worry about.

Regarding probiotics, I'm not enough of an expert to have a favourite brand. My own bias is to use species that are known to produce compounds that favourably modulate the immune system, like Lactobacillus and Bacteroides. Lactobacillus is apparently a component of the VSL products, so you may not need to switch if you like them.

Probiotics do better when given with an immune stimulant, but you have that base covered with the BZYQT and the XCHT.

So, bottom line. The probiotics may not be the missing link here. I'd wonder if a Blood mover might solve a lot of problems for you. I'm guessing your wife is leaning towards NSAIDs? If so, then XHLD is a better choice, since it has a lot of the same (albeit milder) effects, but doesn't hinder joint circulation, inflammation resolution and healing

Hope that helps

Steve
by bfellis
January 14, 2023
Ya! Went on a bender for sure with that one. She is definitely not wanting to use NSAIDS. We have discussed endothelial dysfunction enough to know that’s not what he is missing! My only concern with XHLD is the turmeric. He gets diarrhea on Dasuquin Advanced (w/boswelia and turmeric ) sensitive GI tract on this one for sure. Is there a natural path equivalent to Jing Tang Tendon and Ligament (Bai Shao Yao, Bu Gu Zhi, Chuan Niu Xi, Chuan Xiong, Dang Gui, Gou Qi Zi, Gui Zhi, Sang Zhi, Shan Zhu Yu, Shu, Di Huang, Wu Jia Pi, Yin Yang. ) It just seems like his tendons and ligaments are intermittently/chronically inflamed. We treated a medial shoulder instability 6 months ago (without NSAIDS) and he is now doing one arm push ups on both forelimbs! Her rehab game is strong:) or could I just add some Dang Gui Shen to his XCH w/ QJ? And maybe step up to Bai Shao if Dang Gui is well tolerated? He’s a frustrating case for sure. Thanks again for your time.

Cheers

Brett
by naturevet
January 14, 2023
Brett, see my response to the GI question you posed for the same dog. I did suggest Yi Guan Jian in there, as an option for both the GI and the musculature. If he responded intestinally, then we know we are on the right track and could just augment the formula to make it a bit more anti-inflammatory and inflammation resolving. Or switch it out for Bu Gan Tang once the diarrhea resolved. I use BGT a lot in tendonitis along with XCHT
by bfellis
September 17, 2025
Marshall Trucker is doing great! Yi Guan Jian (along with getting rid of the kibble -replaced with Primal Freeze dried raw..it is really hard to get enough calories in these athletes without some type of concentrated food) provided the GI integrity we were needing along with nourishment of the tendons and ligaments. Thank you!! Brett
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