View Question

Discospondylitis With CP Deficits In A Dog, Cushings And Calcinosis Cutis

by Sarah L - February 19, 2025 View Case Report

Hi, This is regarding my personal dog. She is a 12 year old FS Newfoundland. I am a veterinary technician but am working with a newly practicing vet acupuncturist.

Based off radiographs she has severe spinal degeneration suspected to be secondary to past or current chronic discospondylitis and had become pretty acutely weak. I had never in the past observed any situation which would suggest disco. She had a 3 week course of clavamox at that time for a UTI but I havent done any additional diagnostics. But have been giving colloidal silver, antibacterial herbs and vaginal ozone treatment. I have also been having acupuncture and laser treatments and have noticed minimal improvements. In the past 2 months she has developed Calcinosis cutis and diagnosed with Cushings. I currently have her on lignans, melatonin, Si Miao San, and concentrated Rehmannia 14 for the Cushings. CBD, Lumbrex and Voltrex for the disco. I feel like she has improved some with the Cushings and CC but has progressively been declining with her neuro status. She is unable to walk very far on her own and has significant CP deficits in all 4 legs. She also doesnt fully empty her bladder and I feel gets frequent UTIs as well as she has some chronic lung issues and recently had pneumonia during a long trip. Any thoughts on what would be the best combinations for her. I dont understand much of the acupuncture side of things but the acupucturist often talks about pulling heat off of her and her pulse is weak. Her tongue color varies often from bright red, to purple hues.
Thank you

by Sarah L

February 18, 2025

I forgot to add she has been raw fed with mostly cooling foods for a few months now.

by naturevet

February 23, 2025

Hi there,

The tongue color suggests some combination of Heat and Stasis. Damp Heat is the most common form of Stasis Heat. If you're pretty sure that a move to raw plus Si Miao San has aided the Cushing's, then Damp Heat is likely the type of Stasis Heat you're dealing with. Unrelenting Damp Heat can cause eventual Yin deficiency, causing a weak pulse and withering particularly of the lower limbs. This is what is known as Wei Syndrome.

That said, the involvement of all four limbs indicates the issue is in the neck, and neck issues are almost invariably due to Wind invasion. Chiropractic treatment is likely indicated, and I would have the practitioner particularly evaluate the atlas bone and the sacro-iliac joints. To create the weakness you're seeing, fixations would likely be there as well as throughout the spine.

If a Wind is present, you need to probably reduce Si Miao San a bit, and add San Ren Tang (Three Seeds Combination). That is one of my go-tos for Damp animals with Wind invasion and micturition issues. If your dog is Damp, then Lumbrex may not be helpful to you, and neither will be the Rehmannia 14.

If making those changes helps, then I would also wonder about adding in Xian Fang Huo Ming Yin (Angelica and Mastic) to further expel Wind, bolster limb strength and sensation, and resolve the calcinosis cutis.

Since we're talking about committing to a particular diagnosis in order to see maximum benefits, how can you know in advance it will work? If your dog has Wind invasion with Damp Heat, I would expect sedation of SP 9 and BL 40 to help your dog's pulse. I would ask at the next acupuncture appointment for just those two points to be treated (via sedation). If the pulse definitely improved immediately, you'd have your answer.

If there is no benefit, then the raw diet may not be helping as much. If it's lacking in plant material, then that is likely a problem, creating a Shao Yang disharmony, for which Voltrex is a good choice, along with perhaps Kidney Yin tonics like Lumbrex and others. The SMS may not be helping in that instance. To know if your dog has Shao Yang disharmony, you'd want to see the pulse moderate with sedation of GB 34, 30 and 25.

One of those two scenarios will likely be present and the acupuncture can help sort them out. You'd then focus on those formulas and discontinue the others, to send your dog a clear message to which they can then respond.

Hopefully this helps you out. Chiropractic in either scenario is definitely called for.

Steve

by Sarah L

February 24, 2025

Thank you for you response. She has had a few chiropractic visits but I will get her in again soon and tell them what you said. He raw diet does have fruits and veggies in it. Prior to your response I had read some of the other cases about disco and I ordered her Kan Essentials Qing Ying Tang, Jia Wei Chai Ge Jie Ji Tang and NPH Hoxsey and Boneset. Do you think any of those would be appropriate for her and if so would they be ok to combine with the others you recommended. I just wanted to try to get her something else as soon as possible as nothing seemed to be working as she was getting worse and definitely affecting her quality of life.

by naturevet

February 24, 2025

If her pulse is weak, those may not help at all.
If the disco is active and she is hot and painful,
Try the Hoxsey. If the CC is bad, Try the Qing Ying Tang

S

by Sarah L

February 24, 2025

Her pulse is really off and on weak. The acupuncture vet always checks her inguinal pulse and thinks it is weak. I notice her pedal pulse is always very strong. Her CC is pretty bad. Thank you again. I will get the products you recommend order right away. How long would you expect to see some sort of improvement if we are going to see it? I keep making excuses to not let her go because I think and keep hoping I can get her better.

by Sarah L

February 24, 2025

Also I am not very knowledgeable about the terminology with Chinese medicine but I assume when you say Wind invasion that does not literally mean from the wind blowing, does it?

by naturevet

February 24, 2025

Wind invasion is a Chinese medical diagnosis that includes contagions, allergies, and also problems that obviously worsen in bad weather.

It's really hard for me to say whether an improvement can be expected using what you have on hand. Qing Ying Tang is probably the most simultaneously supportive yet pathogen clearing formula, so it might be the safest one to proceed with, if she does not seem to be currently affected by discospondylitis. If there isn't a clear improvement in a couple of weeks visible in her, then for sure get those other formulas I discussed, based on what your vet finds when she follows the above acupuncture recommendations

S

by Sarah L

February 25, 2025

So the diagnosis of disco was from xrays taken when she was having signs of pnuemonia and UTI while traveling and they showed severe spinal degeneration with suspicion of previous or current chronic disco. I dont believe she has active infection but never realized a time I would have thought she did have active infection. She was never really painful in her spine and has just become progressively more weak. I am thinking her worsening weakness and CP deficits is from the spinal degeneration. Would you say to hold off on Jia Wei Chai Ge Jie Ji Tang for now, what would that be beneficial for? I have also noticed in the past week that her skin has become dry/ flakey and her nose has become dry/ cracking with some hard nasal discharge. I am bringing her tomorrow for the acupuncture and she is going to test what you mentioned and we will go from there. Do you think I should discontinue the Rehmannia 14 and reduce or discontinue the Si Miao San?
Thank you again for your advice

by Sarah L

February 25, 2025

Might you have any other recommendations in addition to Chinese medicine?

by naturevet

February 25, 2025

Hi Sarah,

The latest changes suggest you should try switching out Si Miao San for Qing Ying Tang, or at least cutting back on the SMS if you thought it was super helpful.

I would not use the JWCGJJT as it is an acute acting spinal anti-inflammatory, and the weakened state and pulse suggest that phase of disease has passed if it ever existed.

If she is hot, dry, and inflammed, then the Rehmannia 14 may not be helping you at all. You'd want to use that for a pure deficiency case, not one where there are so many mixed signs. Hopefully the approach I outlined above bears fruit tomorrow

S

by Sarah L

February 27, 2025

Hi,
So the she treated SP 9 and BL 40 and she did have some mild improvement with her pulse but she said not as well as she would have liked. She said it did become stronger and felt more full but was still thready. Next week she is going to treat 34, 30 and 25. I have just started her on the Qing Ying Tang and Hoxsey and Boneset 2 days ago and stopped the SMS for now. Would you change anything else with the information so far? How long do you think I should give her on what she is on before we decide it is not helping and to switch things. They weather has also improved the past few days and she seems a bit stronger.

by naturevet

March 3, 2025

As long as she is improving, then hold your current course. If she starts to have issues, then add back in the SMS in case she was reliant on it. Those three are okay together if need be.

S

by Sarah L

March 3, 2025

Thank you. So she went back for acupuncture again today and she treated GB 34, 30 and 25 and she felt her pulse was worse afterwards. I will continue to see how things go.

You must be logged in to reply

CuredCases.com