Question Details
Persistent Cough W Intermittent Nasal Discharge In A Horse
by LGraham - June 24, 2025    View Case Report
My sister contacted me this week, at her wits end over her favorite horse. She wanted to know about any herbal combos with “Jiaogulan” (Gynostemma pentaphyllum, or ‘Southern Ginseng’), as her online searches have led her to believe this would be helpful for her horse.

I don’t have a T&P dx, or active points, as I am in NJ and the patient is in Western PA – I will see her in about 4 weeks – I do have a pretty thorough history and Western workup. Although this patient doesn’t strike me as an overly “hot” horse when I’ve met her, I’m debating among Huo Xiang Zheng Qi San vs Si Miao San (SMS) vs San Ren Tang (SRT), or maybe even HXZQS initially, followed by SMS. Thoughts?

I do have pics of the sputum and nasal discharge, plus a video of the cough, but can't seem to get them to upload. Open to suggestions.

CLINICAL SUMMARY
Glory, a 22-year-old Arab-Morgan mare, used primary for competitive gaming (a sort of “agility” for horses involving short sprinting runs and quick turns) and pleasure riding

Primary concern:
-persistent cough (about 4 months), for which steroid nebulization worsened clinical signs
-intermittent purulent to mucoid nasal discharge, white with yellow tinge
-better in cooler weather, worse in hot/humid weather
-cough initially improved w Trimethoprim-Sulfamethoxazole, then signs returned when d/c
-no improvement w 4 weeks of doxycycline following TTW results (below)
-currently nebulizing BID w albuterol; recently added ciclesonide nebulization which has help slightly, but still coughing during exercise and rest (just less so)

History:
-2y progressive history of tiring easily and breathing heavier than expected during exercise
-ongoing, intermittent “fecal water syndrome”, characterized by the passage of liquid feces alongside or separately from normal solid manure. Decently managed in past w minimal diet changes, and increased fiber intake, but has been increasing the last 2-3 years. Feces are particularly stinky when loose. Unresponsive to multiple pre and probiotics (both prescription and OTC).
-historical dx of asthma
-historical dx of PPID (Pituitary Pars Intermedia Dysfunction-equine Cushings); on Pergolide mesylate (Prascend®), a dopamine agonist, and highly responsive to low dosing (eg, I had NO idea she was “Cushingoid” – you wouldn’t know it to look at her).
-historical intermittent tying up (negative 5 panel and muscle biopsy testing, so dx open)

Went to The OSU Equine Internal Medicine service for respiratory evaluation. Presenting as:
-BAR w normal vital parameters (temperature, heart rate, respiratory rate)
-no crackles, arrhythmias, or murmurs were noted on cardiothoracic auscultation
-mild, intermittent wheezing noted in the craniodorsal aspect of the lungs on R side
-minimal mucoid nasal discharge and symmetric airflow through both nares
-remainder of PE was WNL

The following diagnostics were performed:
-CBC and chemistry: WNL, except SAA = 693 mg/L, consistent w systemic inflammation or infection (Serum Amyloid A is a major acute phase protein that acts as a sensitive and rapid indicator of inflammation and infection. It's produced by the liver in response to inflammation and its levels increase dramatically during infection or injury). Interestingly, the SAA recheck (1 week later, no treatment) had fallen to 8.
-thoracic radiographs: mild bronchial pattern, mild changes in the caudoventral lung
-transtracheal wash + culture: Interpretation=moderate septic neutrophilic inflammation with increased mucus. Details include notes of frequent, thick strands of eosinophilic material (mucus) and overall low cellularity including 98% degenerate neutrophils, 1% lymphocytes, and 1% large mononuclear cells; no neoplastic cells are identified; rare intracellular and extracellular rod shaped bacteria present, consistent with a lower respiratory infection (pneumonia); no growth on culture after 7 days
Replies
by LGraham
June 26, 2025
Thanks a bunch, Steve! Really appreciate your time with this.

My gut said to 'hold please' on the idea of the “Jiaogulan” (Gynostemma pentaphyllum / ‘Southern Ginseng’) since ginsengs, in general, are more warming and/or moistening, neither of which this horse seems to need based on her clinical presentation and history. :)

On the ATTH website, Cang Er San (Cang Er Zi San - Xanthium Formula) is on backorder. SRT (tabs & granules) and HXZQS (granules) are on the way to her (drop shipped) from ATTH today - not sure which format (tabs vs gran) is easier for her, so sent both where available. Funny/not funny sidenote is that her little 11 mo kitten was in urgent care on Saturday for a suspected UTI, and is responding to western therapy (Onsior and Covenia), so she might get herself some SRT too for cystitis - ha!

Anyway, I do have questions regarding dosing in a 370 kg horse (smaller than your average "horse"):
-NP granules (from Eq Guide to Chinese Vet Herbal Med on ATTH website):
Weight (kg) 360
BID Dose (grams) 7.50
BID Dose (tsp) 3 3/4 (which is about 1.25 TBSP - so basically a generous TBSP)

-Kan tabs (from Nate's Dosing Info Sheet on the ATTH website)
4 Kan Essentials tablets is 1 teaspoon of granules = so 15 tabs BID for a 370 kg horse?

Based on Nates *dog* dosing of tabs, it would be more like 100# = 5 tabs, so 800# = 40 tabs, but I don't think that linear math is that simple when going from dosing a dog to a horse, right?

TIA! I'll update everyone on progress once the herbs arrive.
by naturevet
June 26, 2025
Hi Lynelle,

I'm with you in terms of ruling out Damp Heat first. Since the airways are involved, Three Seeds springs to mind. I often team it with Cang Er Zi San when there is yellow in the nasal discharge, signifying an infectious element (i.e., Wind Damp Heat), although as you said, Huo Xiang Zheng Qi San might work well here, too.

The Damp Heat features include:
- worsening during hot humid weather and on steroids (except for the one that is marginally helpful)
- lab evidence of inflammation (although fleeting)
- the "Cushing's"
- the eosinophila, which if not associated with Shao Yang disharmony, can be associated with "Innate Immune Excess" along with inflammatory markers like the one you found

If they improve in response to the above, then the food is likely an issue, being too rich on a day to day basis. I would hope the watery stool would improve, and not just the nose, if we are on the right track

Let us know how things go!

Steve
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