I read about Yi Yi Ren Tang for giant breeds with musculoskeletal issues, would that be appropriate for her? I did try her on Du Huo Ji Sheng Wan with no effect.
Thanks so much!
Amy
Question Details
Newfoundland With DJD
by
amymatthews
-
October 21, 2009
I read about Yi Yi Ren Tang for giant breeds with musculoskeletal issues, would that be appropriate for her? I did try her on Du Huo Ji Sheng Wan with no effect.
Thanks so much!
Amy
Replies
by
naturevet
October 23, 2009
Hi Amy,
Lots of questions. It may take me a few days to answer them all. Work is extremely busy with no time to spare.
Regarding this dog, however, I would seek chiropractic treatment if you haven't done so already. If there's no veterinary chiropractor in the area, a human chiropractor with an Activator should be able to do a good job.
Regarding a formula, YYRT is a consideration. I would have thought DHJST would help. Basically, though, if the pulse is weak in a giant breed with musculoskeletal concerns, it's the first thing I try.
Another option, however, given that you've already seen one Wind Cold dispersing formula fail, is ruling out muscle spasm. That would make me think of Bu Gan Tang (Tonify the Liver Decoction). Particularly if the muscles in the area felt very bunched or tight, I would give it a go.
Good luck figuring the dog out. In my mind, chiropractic is the top priority and may produce rapid relief.
Steve
Lots of questions. It may take me a few days to answer them all. Work is extremely busy with no time to spare.
Regarding this dog, however, I would seek chiropractic treatment if you haven't done so already. If there's no veterinary chiropractor in the area, a human chiropractor with an Activator should be able to do a good job.
Regarding a formula, YYRT is a consideration. I would have thought DHJST would help. Basically, though, if the pulse is weak in a giant breed with musculoskeletal concerns, it's the first thing I try.
Another option, however, given that you've already seen one Wind Cold dispersing formula fail, is ruling out muscle spasm. That would make me think of Bu Gan Tang (Tonify the Liver Decoction). Particularly if the muscles in the area felt very bunched or tight, I would give it a go.
Good luck figuring the dog out. In my mind, chiropractic is the top priority and may produce rapid relief.
Steve
by
amymatthews
October 23, 2009
Thanks, Steve. I'm so grateful to you for being willing to have this forum out here. I'm hoping as I learn I'll have fewer questions, and I'll keep prioritizing. It really helps to have all the older forum questions to look through, too. I certainly understand about being too busy some days!
I do chiropractic on this patient regularly, and it has really helped her. Now that she's not very mobile, I'm finding that her spine is much quieter.
She does have tense muscles, I've been working on them a bit more recently. And in fact, when I started doing trigger point work, she became extremely sore (so sore, unfortunately, that the owner refuses to let me do it again, though I think she felt better afterwards).
Thanks for your thoughts, as always!
Amy
I do chiropractic on this patient regularly, and it has really helped her. Now that she's not very mobile, I'm finding that her spine is much quieter.
She does have tense muscles, I've been working on them a bit more recently. And in fact, when I started doing trigger point work, she became extremely sore (so sore, unfortunately, that the owner refuses to let me do it again, though I think she felt better afterwards).
Thanks for your thoughts, as always!
Amy
by
amymatthews
November 22, 2009
Status Report: Owners so cautious, no further herbs were allowed, though she did (much to my surprise) embrace the idea of a no-starch diet to decrease the inflammatory tendencies of the body. That has not shown obvious results, BUT the dog can only tolerate about half-non-starch diet - suggesting a SP Def (she has also seemed more comfortable when SP points were addressed). This dog has progressed to having what appears to be a salivary tumor in the neck which may be affecting her swallowing - several weeks before it was detected, she started deteriorating in attitude and mobility, just a bit but worth noticing given how close to the edge she is. At the last appointment her tongue had a white-yellow coat (very unusual for her), pulse was more thready than weak. The owners are somewhat reluctant to pursue surgery (though owner is a vet) due to concerns about quality of life.
by
naturevet
November 22, 2009
Hi Amy,
Thanks for keeping us updated on your cases. I appreciate it, even when the news is not good. Discussion of this dog is probably moot, given the owner's avoidance of herbs and chiropractic, but I'm curious what you meant by not being able to tolerate a complete absence of starchy foods. If that means she couldn't maintain her weight, we usually see that in Yin deficient animals.
We've had good luck with Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang in salivary tumors, and it has a bit of a Yin (albeit Blood) tonifying effect. Another formula called Xiao Luo Wan could be combined with it, not that any of that matters to you here.
Xiao Chai Hu Tang has been useful in cervical tumors, too, in case the side effects of a low-starch diet are symptoms you know it to treat.
Steve
Thanks for keeping us updated on your cases. I appreciate it, even when the news is not good. Discussion of this dog is probably moot, given the owner's avoidance of herbs and chiropractic, but I'm curious what you meant by not being able to tolerate a complete absence of starchy foods. If that means she couldn't maintain her weight, we usually see that in Yin deficient animals.
We've had good luck with Xue Fu Zhu Yu Tang in salivary tumors, and it has a bit of a Yin (albeit Blood) tonifying effect. Another formula called Xiao Luo Wan could be combined with it, not that any of that matters to you here.
Xiao Chai Hu Tang has been useful in cervical tumors, too, in case the side effects of a low-starch diet are symptoms you know it to treat.
Steve
by
amymatthews
November 22, 2009
Hm...history of a single MCT in this dog...and hypothyroidism. XFZYT sounds pretty attractive in that light.
My main insecurity is the gi sensitivity of this dog - she tolerates NSAID only briefly. And the response to diets without starch is gi symptoms, though I can't remember exactly what...possibly diarrhea.
These owners might be willing to try an herb (though I'll probably only get one chance) if something seems a good fit and has the potential to help with the mass. If she were younger, they might even give me a few chances, but at this stage, probably not. I'm worried that this may be pushing them to "make the big choice"...though that's not necessarily the wrong thing to do, either.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this dog, even in the face of the possibility that I won't be able to put any them into action. I'll let you know if I get to try one.
My main insecurity is the gi sensitivity of this dog - she tolerates NSAID only briefly. And the response to diets without starch is gi symptoms, though I can't remember exactly what...possibly diarrhea.
These owners might be willing to try an herb (though I'll probably only get one chance) if something seems a good fit and has the potential to help with the mass. If she were younger, they might even give me a few chances, but at this stage, probably not. I'm worried that this may be pushing them to "make the big choice"...though that's not necessarily the wrong thing to do, either.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this dog, even in the face of the possibility that I won't be able to put any them into action. I'll let you know if I get to try one.
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