Thanks
Mary Lindamood DVM CVA CVHM VSMT
Question Details
Herbal Actions Of Cerenia And Hycodan
by
mldvm
-
January 2, 2026
Thanks
Mary Lindamood DVM CVA CVHM VSMT
Replies
by
naturevet
January 5, 2026
Hi Mary,
We can figure out some actions of drugs based on their taste. Opioids like Hycodan taste bitter, which results in a descending action on Qi and Yang that, in moderation, can help relieve coughing which is due to the obstructed descent of Lung Qi. Cerenia has the same profoundly bitter taste and thus has a descending action of Stomach Qi. Both products, if used to excess, become excessively sedating due to their bitterness.
So, if we were to modify the herbs somehow in acknowledgement of the fact that extra descending action is needed, what would we try? Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang encompasses Minor Bupleurum, but has added descending herbs. In theory, based on the need for those drugs, it should work better than Minor Bupleurum, so you could give that a try and see if the required dose of the two drugs to maintain the animal symptom-free is lowered.
Hopefully, that ends up being the case!
Steve
We can figure out some actions of drugs based on their taste. Opioids like Hycodan taste bitter, which results in a descending action on Qi and Yang that, in moderation, can help relieve coughing which is due to the obstructed descent of Lung Qi. Cerenia has the same profoundly bitter taste and thus has a descending action of Stomach Qi. Both products, if used to excess, become excessively sedating due to their bitterness.
So, if we were to modify the herbs somehow in acknowledgement of the fact that extra descending action is needed, what would we try? Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang encompasses Minor Bupleurum, but has added descending herbs. In theory, based on the need for those drugs, it should work better than Minor Bupleurum, so you could give that a try and see if the required dose of the two drugs to maintain the animal symptom-free is lowered.
Hopefully, that ends up being the case!
Steve
by
mldvm
April 7, 2026
Hi Steve, me again with drug taste/herbal function questions.
With the explosion of the use of Apoquel for atopy, what would you consider it's taste and herbal function? And how would we determine the herbal equivalent of the injectable Cytopoint? Are they considered a Yin tonic like Pred, or more bitter and drying like antibiotics?
And while I have a bit of your attention, any plans on a CIVT webinar on your lecture at the New York Integrative conference on Lyme disease? I have the slides but know full well you share far more information during the lecture than what's on the slides!
Cheers!
Mary
With the explosion of the use of Apoquel for atopy, what would you consider it's taste and herbal function? And how would we determine the herbal equivalent of the injectable Cytopoint? Are they considered a Yin tonic like Pred, or more bitter and drying like antibiotics?
And while I have a bit of your attention, any plans on a CIVT webinar on your lecture at the New York Integrative conference on Lyme disease? I have the slides but know full well you share far more information during the lecture than what's on the slides!
Cheers!
Mary
by
naturevet
April 13, 2026
Hi Mary,
CIVT hasn't invited me to do that talk, if you are ever on their site at all, you could pitch it as an idea. They may be interested!
Regarding Apoquel, extended use leads to severe Wei Qi damage, so I guess that makes it cooling and depleting. That fits with the bitter taste of the drug in its original unflavoured form.
For Cytopoint, the main adverse events relate to low energy and digestive issues. My sense is that it does act like an immunosuppressive, so those three observations together suggest it is likewise depleting, but I don't think it is as damaging Apoquel.
That's about all I can really say about that!
Steve
CIVT hasn't invited me to do that talk, if you are ever on their site at all, you could pitch it as an idea. They may be interested!
Regarding Apoquel, extended use leads to severe Wei Qi damage, so I guess that makes it cooling and depleting. That fits with the bitter taste of the drug in its original unflavoured form.
For Cytopoint, the main adverse events relate to low energy and digestive issues. My sense is that it does act like an immunosuppressive, so those three observations together suggest it is likewise depleting, but I don't think it is as damaging Apoquel.
That's about all I can really say about that!
Steve
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