My patient whiskers, 9 yr fs Rottie was just diagnosed w osteosarcoma. She has a long hx of vomiting, cannot eat any dry dog food. Hx of pancreatitis ( 2x) and cystitis. She has done well on Stomach Happy and has been on Tylan for a long time, which we planned to taper off. She also has occ. urinary incontinence. Her tongue has been pale /purplish in the past, I have not seen her since the osteosarc has been dx last week. I am planning to try her on hoxsey and boneset and Bone stasis. I cannot find any price on your website, also I was not able to proceed with my order on your website. Also I was wondering about how safe Vit a and d injections are/risk of toxicity if I follow your suggestions in your book? Diet wise, do you have a cancer recipe? I am unsure how high I should go on the fishoil dose considering her hx of pancreatitis? thank you Tina
Question Details
Osteosarcoma
by
tainab25
-
November 9, 2009
My patient whiskers, 9 yr fs Rottie was just diagnosed w osteosarcoma. She has a long hx of vomiting, cannot eat any dry dog food. Hx of pancreatitis ( 2x) and cystitis. She has done well on Stomach Happy and has been on Tylan for a long time, which we planned to taper off. She also has occ. urinary incontinence. Her tongue has been pale /purplish in the past, I have not seen her since the osteosarc has been dx last week. I am planning to try her on hoxsey and boneset and Bone stasis. I cannot find any price on your website, also I was not able to proceed with my order on your website. Also I was wondering about how safe Vit a and d injections are/risk of toxicity if I follow your suggestions in your book? Diet wise, do you have a cancer recipe? I am unsure how high I should go on the fishoil dose considering her hx of pancreatitis? thank you Tina
Replies
by
naturevet
November 10, 2009
Hi Tina,
Lots of questions. First off, I'm not sure why you were having trouble using the site, but at any rate, if you are in the US, you can price and order the herbs from A Time to Heal (Dr. Mona Boudreaux; http://www.atimetohealherbs.com/cgi-bin/index.pl).
Often times we pair Hoxsey with Si Miao San to help protect the Spleen from Hoxsey's strong cooling effects.
I'm not sure what's in Bone Stasis. You'd want to ensure the herbs don't conflict and cancel each other out. I'm assuming it's a blood mover. If so, that should be okay, as long as it's not warming.
As for A and D, we've switched to oral use, and are using the monthly dose on a daily basis for the first few weeks at least. We haven't seen toxicity. With long term use over several years, we've seen some dogs become hypercalcemic.
Osteosarcoma is a tough disorder to treat. I hope you enjoy some success here.
Good luck!
Steve
Lots of questions. First off, I'm not sure why you were having trouble using the site, but at any rate, if you are in the US, you can price and order the herbs from A Time to Heal (Dr. Mona Boudreaux; http://www.atimetohealherbs.com/cgi-bin/index.pl).
Often times we pair Hoxsey with Si Miao San to help protect the Spleen from Hoxsey's strong cooling effects.
I'm not sure what's in Bone Stasis. You'd want to ensure the herbs don't conflict and cancel each other out. I'm assuming it's a blood mover. If so, that should be okay, as long as it's not warming.
As for A and D, we've switched to oral use, and are using the monthly dose on a daily basis for the first few weeks at least. We haven't seen toxicity. With long term use over several years, we've seen some dogs become hypercalcemic.
Osteosarcoma is a tough disorder to treat. I hope you enjoy some success here.
Good luck!
Steve
by
ericahawker
November 11, 2009
Tina--
I had recent success with a bone tumor on a 10 yr old rottie using Hoxsey and Boneset, Antioxidants, Fish oil and a western herb called Paw Paw from Nature's Sunshine.
The dog lived 5-6 months from time of diagnosis and had a very good quality of life. He only needed Deramaxx for pain most of the time and then we added in tramadol at the end.
Erin got me started on the Paw Paw and I have seen good results with it on the 2 bone cancer patients that I have treated with it. The dose is 2 capsules every 8 hrs.
Hope that helps-
Erica
I had recent success with a bone tumor on a 10 yr old rottie using Hoxsey and Boneset, Antioxidants, Fish oil and a western herb called Paw Paw from Nature's Sunshine.
The dog lived 5-6 months from time of diagnosis and had a very good quality of life. He only needed Deramaxx for pain most of the time and then we added in tramadol at the end.
Erin got me started on the Paw Paw and I have seen good results with it on the 2 bone cancer patients that I have treated with it. The dose is 2 capsules every 8 hrs.
Hope that helps-
Erica
by
tainab25
November 17, 2009
Hello,
Why si miao san ( sp tonifying, but cooling) to protect from cooling hoxsey?
I got the hoxsey today and will start her on it.
how much Vit D?
Also I have read about Vit c/Vit k 100:1 dosing- what do you think about it?
Also unsure how high to go on fishoils with a dog w hx of pancreatitis?
Thanks so much for both of your input
Tina
Why si miao san ( sp tonifying, but cooling) to protect from cooling hoxsey?
I got the hoxsey today and will start her on it.
how much Vit D?
Also I have read about Vit c/Vit k 100:1 dosing- what do you think about it?
Also unsure how high to go on fishoils with a dog w hx of pancreatitis?
Thanks so much for both of your input
Tina
by
naturevet
November 17, 2009
SMS warms the Spleen, protecting it from the cool effects of Hoxsey, and the Huang Bai within SMS. So you get some added cooling benefits by using SMS as well, but protect the Spleen at the same time.
I use injectable vitamin AD preparations but give them orally. Since the vitamin D there is D3, giving 0.5 to 1.0 ml of AD500 provides an ample dose, but does not promote hypercalcemia. I'd do it at least a few times a week, until you get some stability.
I don't have any experience with the VitC/VitK combo. I guess you'd have to go back to the source material where you read about it for more information, unless someone weighs in on it here.
Generally, a therapeutic dose of fish oil should not present a challenge for the pancreas.
Good luck,
Steve
I use injectable vitamin AD preparations but give them orally. Since the vitamin D there is D3, giving 0.5 to 1.0 ml of AD500 provides an ample dose, but does not promote hypercalcemia. I'd do it at least a few times a week, until you get some stability.
I don't have any experience with the VitC/VitK combo. I guess you'd have to go back to the source material where you read about it for more information, unless someone weighs in on it here.
Generally, a therapeutic dose of fish oil should not present a challenge for the pancreas.
Good luck,
Steve
by
mikemesley
November 17, 2009
I have also found that you can get "high grade" fish oild with higher amounts of EPA/DHA per ml of oil, which I now stock in our clinic. The ones we stock are made by metagenics, but I know there are others too. This might alleviate some concerns re the pancreatitis/caloric issue.
Can someone tell me what doses of A and D the product "AD500" has per ml - then I could think about using our own injectible formulation orally. Would it be detrimental if our preparation also included Vit E? We have a prep called Vitamec ADE injectible with 500000IU/ml Vit A, 50000 IU/ml Vit D, and 50 IU/ml Vit E.
Can someone tell me what doses of A and D the product "AD500" has per ml - then I could think about using our own injectible formulation orally. Would it be detrimental if our preparation also included Vit E? We have a prep called Vitamec ADE injectible with 500000IU/ml Vit A, 50000 IU/ml Vit D, and 50 IU/ml Vit E.
by
naturevet
November 18, 2009
Hi Mike,
Your vitamin ADE prep would work just fine given orally. AD500 means 500,000 IU vitamin A per ml.
S
Your vitamin ADE prep would work just fine given orally. AD500 means 500,000 IU vitamin A per ml.
S
by
tainab25
December 2, 2009
Hi Steve,
Whiskers was doing well so far.
O told me today, that she had 2 episodes of vomiting ( many times), followed by fast heartrate and choking.
Not sure what is causing her to vomit, her list of meds is rather long: bone stasis (mu gua, wei ling xian, gu sui bu, chuan xiong, hong hua, gui zhi, sang zhi, niu xi, bai shao yao, mo yao, ru xiang- brake down stasis, activate blood, relieve pain), hoxsey 1.5ml bid ,rimadyl, maintenance tylan and stomach happy ( bone stasis and stomach happy by Dr. Xie), vit a/d 500 1 ml 3x/wk po.
Her hx of chronic vomiting has been relieved by tylan. We were able to decrease Tylan after starting of stomach happy ( nourish yin, move qi, relieve pain). Her tongue used to be pale and pulse weak. I have not seen her since was dx w osteosarc.
I am not sure about the whole picture of vomiting, stomach heat yes, but what else with that pale tongue. (xh of pancreatitis, chron vomitig, cruciate tear, cystitis)
I am debating now which meds I should drop now/which is most likely causing problem. Or should I just add in Si miao San as you suggested earlier.
Thanks
Tina
Whiskers was doing well so far.
O told me today, that she had 2 episodes of vomiting ( many times), followed by fast heartrate and choking.
Not sure what is causing her to vomit, her list of meds is rather long: bone stasis (mu gua, wei ling xian, gu sui bu, chuan xiong, hong hua, gui zhi, sang zhi, niu xi, bai shao yao, mo yao, ru xiang- brake down stasis, activate blood, relieve pain), hoxsey 1.5ml bid ,rimadyl, maintenance tylan and stomach happy ( bone stasis and stomach happy by Dr. Xie), vit a/d 500 1 ml 3x/wk po.
Her hx of chronic vomiting has been relieved by tylan. We were able to decrease Tylan after starting of stomach happy ( nourish yin, move qi, relieve pain). Her tongue used to be pale and pulse weak. I have not seen her since was dx w osteosarc.
I am not sure about the whole picture of vomiting, stomach heat yes, but what else with that pale tongue. (xh of pancreatitis, chron vomitig, cruciate tear, cystitis)
I am debating now which meds I should drop now/which is most likely causing problem. Or should I just add in Si miao San as you suggested earlier.
Thanks
Tina
by
naturevet
December 2, 2009
Hi Tina,
Congratulations on your progress thus far. Given the response to Tylan and herbs that regulate peristalsis, I'd start by adding Si Miao San into the protocol. It essentially does those functions, so it should provide further stability.
Good luck,
Steve
Congratulations on your progress thus far. Given the response to Tylan and herbs that regulate peristalsis, I'd start by adding Si Miao San into the protocol. It essentially does those functions, so it should provide further stability.
Good luck,
Steve
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