I also was encouraging the owner to start with 1/2 the recommended pred taper. That was my other question. In a qi deficiency such as this, is the cooling anti-inflammatory effects of pred of concern?
Kevin
Question Details
More On The Horse
by
landauvet
-
December 19, 2009
I also was encouraging the owner to start with 1/2 the recommended pred taper. That was my other question. In a qi deficiency such as this, is the cooling anti-inflammatory effects of pred of concern?
Kevin
Replies
by
naturevet
December 19, 2009
Yes, if we're saying the horse is cold and wet, then a cooling moistening drug is not likely to be very effective. So dosing to effect is a better idea. If the horse is not yet in distress, I'd try the herbs first. If you end up needing pred as well, the herbs will allow you to use a lower dose, since they will have dealt with a substantial amount of the problem.
Lastly, I'd put the horse on quercetin. It's an antihistamine bioflavinoid that works by stabilizing mast cell granules. Use about double the typical human dose. It's effects will build over several weeks to months.
Steve
Lastly, I'd put the horse on quercetin. It's an antihistamine bioflavinoid that works by stabilizing mast cell granules. Use about double the typical human dose. It's effects will build over several weeks to months.
Steve
by
landauvet
December 20, 2009
Steve,
Thanks so much for the great info! Do you have a source of quercetin that you like. It is not one that I have used before. I see it is something to be found at vitamin shops, but I would want to know the source.
Kevin
Thanks so much for the great info! Do you have a source of quercetin that you like. It is not one that I have used before. I see it is something to be found at vitamin shops, but I would want to know the source.
Kevin
by
naturevet
December 21, 2009
Hi Kevin,
I assume most commercial versions will be fine. Quercetin is a plant pigment (bioflavinoid). It's what gives onion skin its yellow color. It's a ubiquitous plant compound.
Steve
I assume most commercial versions will be fine. Quercetin is a plant pigment (bioflavinoid). It's what gives onion skin its yellow color. It's a ubiquitous plant compound.
Steve
by
landauvet
March 7, 2010
Hi Steve,
I want to update you on this horse. She is getting a prednisone inhaler 2-3x daily. She did a 1/2 tapered oral dose of pred as we discussed. The owner is very happy to have her horse back. She is on 1 tbsp BID of Su Zhi Jiang Qi Tang and 2x the human dose of quercitin. When I rechecked her last Friday, she still coughs with brushing and exercise. Her respiratory pattern is fine and she does not get out of breath anymore. The cough is quite productive and phlegmmy. She has some nasal discharge, too. I was debating adding someyhing to address this damp cough, possibly SRT once we are stable a little while longer. It has only been a few weeks of "normal " breathing.
Tongue and pulse were pretty unremarkable to me. Some HL and kidney point reactivity now that she is back into hard work. I acupunctured BH, Shen shu, shen peng, Shen Jiao, BL-13, Fei-men, and Fei-Pan, Lu- 1, Lu-9 (Warm)
Thanks for any input in addressing the moist cough.
Kevin
I want to update you on this horse. She is getting a prednisone inhaler 2-3x daily. She did a 1/2 tapered oral dose of pred as we discussed. The owner is very happy to have her horse back. She is on 1 tbsp BID of Su Zhi Jiang Qi Tang and 2x the human dose of quercitin. When I rechecked her last Friday, she still coughs with brushing and exercise. Her respiratory pattern is fine and she does not get out of breath anymore. The cough is quite productive and phlegmmy. She has some nasal discharge, too. I was debating adding someyhing to address this damp cough, possibly SRT once we are stable a little while longer. It has only been a few weeks of "normal " breathing.
Tongue and pulse were pretty unremarkable to me. Some HL and kidney point reactivity now that she is back into hard work. I acupunctured BH, Shen shu, shen peng, Shen Jiao, BL-13, Fei-men, and Fei-Pan, Lu- 1, Lu-9 (Warm)
Thanks for any input in addressing the moist cough.
Kevin
by
naturevet
March 7, 2010
Hi Kevin,
Su Zi Jiang Qi Tang (if I understand your formula correctly) has the effect of increasing blood flow to the lungs, helping to resolve (for example) mucosal airway inflammation. SRT, while being drying to excess mucous production, will pull blood away from that mucosal surface, and potentially heighten inflammation. From a Chinese perspective, we would assume it was too drying.
So the best action to take is to perhaps modify SZJQT, if only by increasing the amount of anti-Phlegm herbs that are in there. These Phlegm transforming herbs are often times aromatic, like Pinellia or Ban Xia, and so improve mucosal inflammation, lessening mucous production in the process.
The other ways of increasing airway blood flow include blood tonics like Dang Gui or Lung Yin tonics of various descriptions. The problem is that if the horse has Damp issues, they could make it worse. In fact, I would wonder if an even lower dose of pred would help. From a Chinese point of view, Damp would be reduced. From a western point of view, mucosal blood flow would increase further.
Lastly, consider Huang Qi (Astragalus). It's a Wei (immune) tonic, increases blood flow, helps mobilize fluid out of the Lungs, and appears to stabilize mast cells against degranulation. All in all, apart from testing the waters again for an ability to lower pred, it may be your best choice given the history of hives.
Continued good luck!
Steve
Su Zi Jiang Qi Tang (if I understand your formula correctly) has the effect of increasing blood flow to the lungs, helping to resolve (for example) mucosal airway inflammation. SRT, while being drying to excess mucous production, will pull blood away from that mucosal surface, and potentially heighten inflammation. From a Chinese perspective, we would assume it was too drying.
So the best action to take is to perhaps modify SZJQT, if only by increasing the amount of anti-Phlegm herbs that are in there. These Phlegm transforming herbs are often times aromatic, like Pinellia or Ban Xia, and so improve mucosal inflammation, lessening mucous production in the process.
The other ways of increasing airway blood flow include blood tonics like Dang Gui or Lung Yin tonics of various descriptions. The problem is that if the horse has Damp issues, they could make it worse. In fact, I would wonder if an even lower dose of pred would help. From a Chinese point of view, Damp would be reduced. From a western point of view, mucosal blood flow would increase further.
Lastly, consider Huang Qi (Astragalus). It's a Wei (immune) tonic, increases blood flow, helps mobilize fluid out of the Lungs, and appears to stabilize mast cells against degranulation. All in all, apart from testing the waters again for an ability to lower pred, it may be your best choice given the history of hives.
Continued good luck!
Steve
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