Question Details
Dog Recovering From Osteosarcoma Now Has ACL Tear
by
sswinamer
-
January 10, 2010
Replies
by
naturevet
January 10, 2010
Wow. Nothing like choosing an easy case to start with. Good for you!
Is the tear partial or complete? If complete, is surgery an option?
Assuming surgery is not an option, and that maybe it's severely torn but not completely ruptured, you've got a decent shot at things. Here are the things I would try:
1. A chiropractic or osteopathic evaluation. This is essential, even if it takes you a while to source, as the spondylosis has very likely created some nerve root impingement and secondary weakness that will frustrate your attempts to strengthen the leg. Try for a vet, but if there isn't any local expertise, try to round up a human practitioner that is willing to let you walk them through the anatomy, if they haven't done it before. If they use an Activator, everything should be safe and fine. The practitioner should also be able to make sure that there is no S-I joint fixation masquerading as a torn cruciate, which happens all the time.
2. Your two general differentials are stasis in the GB channel, or Blood stasis in general. For Blood stasis, look for heat at ST 37 and BL 17. For GB channel obstruction, look for heat at GB 34, 40, 41, 27, 30, and even potentially 25.
3. If Blood stasis, and the dog appreciates warmth, use Xiao Huo Luo Dan. If the dog is very hot, try Xian Fang Huo Ming Yin. If it's a GB case, try Xiao Chai Hu Tang, with Qin Jiao added for best results.
4. Regardless which formula you use, pick up some Ruta graveolens 30C (a homeopathic) and use at least once daily.
Your timeline for improvements will be slow, unless there are vertebral fixations that are creating nerve root impingement, or there is an SI joint fixation. Otherwise, some patience will be required. Dogs that are badly affected can take as long as six months to be lameness free.
Hope that's helpful advice. Best of luck to you, and no worries using the above advice in a cancer case. There's no risk of spreading the tumor.
All the best,
Steve
Is the tear partial or complete? If complete, is surgery an option?
Assuming surgery is not an option, and that maybe it's severely torn but not completely ruptured, you've got a decent shot at things. Here are the things I would try:
1. A chiropractic or osteopathic evaluation. This is essential, even if it takes you a while to source, as the spondylosis has very likely created some nerve root impingement and secondary weakness that will frustrate your attempts to strengthen the leg. Try for a vet, but if there isn't any local expertise, try to round up a human practitioner that is willing to let you walk them through the anatomy, if they haven't done it before. If they use an Activator, everything should be safe and fine. The practitioner should also be able to make sure that there is no S-I joint fixation masquerading as a torn cruciate, which happens all the time.
2. Your two general differentials are stasis in the GB channel, or Blood stasis in general. For Blood stasis, look for heat at ST 37 and BL 17. For GB channel obstruction, look for heat at GB 34, 40, 41, 27, 30, and even potentially 25.
3. If Blood stasis, and the dog appreciates warmth, use Xiao Huo Luo Dan. If the dog is very hot, try Xian Fang Huo Ming Yin. If it's a GB case, try Xiao Chai Hu Tang, with Qin Jiao added for best results.
4. Regardless which formula you use, pick up some Ruta graveolens 30C (a homeopathic) and use at least once daily.
Your timeline for improvements will be slow, unless there are vertebral fixations that are creating nerve root impingement, or there is an SI joint fixation. Otherwise, some patience will be required. Dogs that are badly affected can take as long as six months to be lameness free.
Hope that's helpful advice. Best of luck to you, and no worries using the above advice in a cancer case. There's no risk of spreading the tumor.
All the best,
Steve
by
sswinamer
June 7, 2010
Hi Steve,
The above described dog has been doing great on Xiao Huo Luo Dan, a high protein diet( mostly home cooked) and some anti-oxidants but now she has a new lesion/tumor at the tip of her 13th rib right at GB 25.
I don't think we are going to be able to do more surgery/chemo.
Would you suggest Hoxey with Boneset now??
The above described dog has been doing great on Xiao Huo Luo Dan, a high protein diet( mostly home cooked) and some anti-oxidants but now she has a new lesion/tumor at the tip of her 13th rib right at GB 25.
I don't think we are going to be able to do more surgery/chemo.
Would you suggest Hoxey with Boneset now??
by
naturevet
June 7, 2010
You have several reasonable options. Since the tumor is on the GB channel, that makes it almost irresistible for us to try Xiao Chai Hu Tang orally, in addition to the XHLD.
As well, I'd do something topically. Specifically, I'd apply topical DMSO as both a carrier and anti-neoplastic (cell differentiating) agent. Into the gel, I'd mix some vitamin AD (large animal injectable preps are fine) and Hoxsey with Boneset. Specific amounts are probably not as important as just being consistent in the application. Just clip over the tumor and apply the gel, then dribble the herbs and vitamins on over top and mix them in. Do this at least once daily. With repetitive treatment, the skin can get a little pink, rough, and itchy/flaky, but the upside is that tumor may ossify itself.
Give that a try and let us know how it goes. Thanks very much for the feedback in the interim.
Steve
As well, I'd do something topically. Specifically, I'd apply topical DMSO as both a carrier and anti-neoplastic (cell differentiating) agent. Into the gel, I'd mix some vitamin AD (large animal injectable preps are fine) and Hoxsey with Boneset. Specific amounts are probably not as important as just being consistent in the application. Just clip over the tumor and apply the gel, then dribble the herbs and vitamins on over top and mix them in. Do this at least once daily. With repetitive treatment, the skin can get a little pink, rough, and itchy/flaky, but the upside is that tumor may ossify itself.
Give that a try and let us know how it goes. Thanks very much for the feedback in the interim.
Steve
by
sswinamer
June 9, 2010
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the quick reply. One other quick question. If I do biopsy the area to confirm the diagnosis, how long should I wait to start using the DMSO with the vitamins and herbs added in
Sonya
Thanks for the quick reply. One other quick question. If I do biopsy the area to confirm the diagnosis, how long should I wait to start using the DMSO with the vitamins and herbs added in
Sonya
by
naturevet
June 9, 2010
Hi Sonya,
Given the propensity for biopsies to aggravate osteosarcomas by promoting inflammation, I'd start using the DMSO prep BEFORE the biopsy. Good luck, and let us know how you're doing.
Steve
Given the propensity for biopsies to aggravate osteosarcomas by promoting inflammation, I'd start using the DMSO prep BEFORE the biopsy. Good luck, and let us know how you're doing.
Steve
by
sswinamer
July 5, 2010
Hi Steve,
The above descibed dog is doing well. I just have a question about how long to keep applying the DMSO and hoxey formula with vitamin a/d. The tumor is no longer palpable and she is still on her Xiao Huo Luo Dan and Xiao Chai Hu Tang. We have also started peroxicam as an oral NSAID. Should we continue with the DMSO and hoxey and cut down on the vitamin A/D? I don't really want to cause she is doing well but am not sure how long you can safely use this combo. We use about 1/4 cc of the vitamin mixed into the DMSO daily. Your thoughts are always appreciated.
The above descibed dog is doing well. I just have a question about how long to keep applying the DMSO and hoxey formula with vitamin a/d. The tumor is no longer palpable and she is still on her Xiao Huo Luo Dan and Xiao Chai Hu Tang. We have also started peroxicam as an oral NSAID. Should we continue with the DMSO and hoxey and cut down on the vitamin A/D? I don't really want to cause she is doing well but am not sure how long you can safely use this combo. We use about 1/4 cc of the vitamin mixed into the DMSO daily. Your thoughts are always appreciated.
by
naturevet
July 5, 2010
Hi there,
Congratulations on your excellent results!
Your dose seems safe to me to continue. A happy medium might be doing the DMSO treatment every two or three days. As long as there was no resurgence in lameness or tumor size, then you could slowly continue the weaning process.
If you repeated a radiograph, and saw only normal trabecular bone, that would be another sign the dog is in remission and not as reliant on any of the therapies.
What a fun situation for you to be in!
Steve
Congratulations on your excellent results!
Your dose seems safe to me to continue. A happy medium might be doing the DMSO treatment every two or three days. As long as there was no resurgence in lameness or tumor size, then you could slowly continue the weaning process.
If you repeated a radiograph, and saw only normal trabecular bone, that would be another sign the dog is in remission and not as reliant on any of the therapies.
What a fun situation for you to be in!
Steve
by
sswinamer
July 13, 2010
Hi Steve,
So the tumor at GB 25 seems to be in remission but now the dog is having a horrible time walking and has proprioception deficits in her hind legs. Her reflexs seem fine. She has horrible spondylosis in her back and both ACLs are torn( one has been repaired).
I know the tumor may now be in her spine ( the owners are tapped financially, but would acupuncture be contraindicated??
Could the herbs be interacting with her peroxicam or soloxine? She is on vitamin D 1000IU daily. Vitamin E 100IU daily. She is getting her XHLD and XCHT daily and we have dropped the DMSO/Hoxey/Vit A/D combo to EOD. As always I really appreciate your help.
Her tongue is pale lavender to pale pink and her pulses are deep and lack tone to my un-educated fingers.
So the tumor at GB 25 seems to be in remission but now the dog is having a horrible time walking and has proprioception deficits in her hind legs. Her reflexs seem fine. She has horrible spondylosis in her back and both ACLs are torn( one has been repaired).
I know the tumor may now be in her spine ( the owners are tapped financially, but would acupuncture be contraindicated??
Could the herbs be interacting with her peroxicam or soloxine? She is on vitamin D 1000IU daily. Vitamin E 100IU daily. She is getting her XHLD and XCHT daily and we have dropped the DMSO/Hoxey/Vit A/D combo to EOD. As always I really appreciate your help.
Her tongue is pale lavender to pale pink and her pulses are deep and lack tone to my un-educated fingers.
by
naturevet
July 14, 2010
Hi Sonya,
The pulse and tongue suggest the dog is now purely deficient or weak, and needs strengthening. Our strategies in the past have been aimed at dealing with Stasis, altering circulation and inflammation, and addressing the tumor. At this point, following the lead of the dog, the emphasis seems to be shifting to back and hind limb strengthening.
The next formula I'd consider is You Gui Wan, a 'Kidney' tonic that addresses low back pain and hind limb weakness. Also, if at all possible, I'd seek an osteopathic or chiropractic treatment for the dog's back. That should help a lot.
Here's hoping for continued success. All the best,
Steve
The pulse and tongue suggest the dog is now purely deficient or weak, and needs strengthening. Our strategies in the past have been aimed at dealing with Stasis, altering circulation and inflammation, and addressing the tumor. At this point, following the lead of the dog, the emphasis seems to be shifting to back and hind limb strengthening.
The next formula I'd consider is You Gui Wan, a 'Kidney' tonic that addresses low back pain and hind limb weakness. Also, if at all possible, I'd seek an osteopathic or chiropractic treatment for the dog's back. That should help a lot.
Here's hoping for continued success. All the best,
Steve
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