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QYT Has Done Its Job?

by mikemesley - January 10, 2010

Hi everyone.

5yo male neutered boxer has long Hx of allergic skin disease. Big on heat signs and initially with a huge full, slippery pulse, he has in the past responded well to SMS and then SRT, and eventually to combo of SRT and YGJ. Haven't ever been able to successfully take him onto CSWLT yet. Diet modification has been also a success.
He has been very good without being perfect for quite a while now, but Os stopped the herbs due to cost, so I invisage continuing these would have improved results. Diet alone seems to have made a big difference to him.

Recently was on a ferry to Tasmania and it was extremely hot and he overheated. Unable to escape the heat really, and O had to cool him down by using warm water poured over him.

Since this episode there has been a huge flare up of the itchiness, especially focussed on extremities.

A week ago now he looked like a QYT dog - pulse and tongue corellated with Steve's description of these. In the past few days no side effects have been seen and chewing feet has improved markedly (O says about 50-60% better), but on exam this morning he has quite a purple tongue (deepish purple) and pulse is deep and a bit wiry. He certainly doesn't appear to have active GB points, in fact BL17 still appears to be the most active point I can find.

Do you think he is tending back to the Damp Heat side of the diagram, or (as I think) maybe we are seeing blood stasis signs appearing (maybe from damage to Yin after heat issues?). Is QYT still appropriate, or is there something that would be suggested as well as / instead of it? Doesn't appear to be too "windy" at the moment - ie SWXFY doesn't seem the right choice to me. Maybe just some SWT? Or is QYT enough of a yin tonic - and I should just leave it alone?

Interested in your take on this anyone...

Mike

by naturevet

January 10, 2010

Hi Mike,

A hot itchy dog with a deep wiry pulse and a purple tongue is still a perfect set of indications for Qing Ying Tang. I'd carry on with it.

Good work on your case!

Steve

by mikemesley

February 14, 2010

Hi Steve,

As per your prediction, continuation of this fella on QYT has been fantastic. He hasn't been this good for a long time.
Exam today - pulse fairly moderate, but if anything tending to high tone, a bit wide, good finger-lift. Not as slippery as he has been in past. Tongue is excellent - best ever for him. One thing I did notice about him today was that his skin heat has really become more focussed along ventral abdomen (Yang Ming?) - warmth all along this aspect of the body, notably less warm on dorsal surface and today (for the first time) noted relatively cool extremities - and this is notably different below the carpus/hock (shu tream points?). this is a really startlingly obvious temperature gradient between radius/ulna and metacarpals - and equivalents on hind limbs.
He is about to hit the end of his latest pot of herbs and it feels like a change is probably possible. However - as per your instructions - I feel reluctant to change when he is so well. Should I wait until something else occurs before making the change, or should I make it now? Would there be anything specific to look out for when the QYT becomes too much, and we might be able to move down the scale to either/both a Damp Heat Clearer / Blood Tonic. Or is there a chance that if he is well enough we'd be able to try stright onto CSWLT. I am happy with his diet now too - O has done well here.

Thanks for your help - already the big boxer is going so well - so thank you!

Mike

by mikemesley

February 15, 2010

A funny thing happened after exam yesterday. The dog above got into a scrap with another dog here at the clinic. After this excitng, but maybe worrying or frightening, event I saw a big change in the previously mentioned finding about the feet below the shu strem points - this heat gradient immediately went away - and the licking chewing etc of feet (which is such a key feature of him when he gets "bad") returned almost immediately.

Wondered if this aided in diagnostics or underlying root causes suspected. I guessed maybe showed SP and/or KID deficiencies (Worry=SP, Fear=KID), but maybe he was just angry (LIV)?

Really made me appreciate the dynamics of active point palpation and manual thermal diagnostic techniques. Thought I'd share that with you...

by naturevet

February 16, 2010

Hi Mike,

It's always heartening for people to hear of nasty skin cases getting better. Congratulations.

I'm a fan of 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'. So without the appearance of problems, I'd be reluctant to stop QYT. Generally, if it's going to create a problem, you'll see Damp appear, which it doesn't sound like you have yet.

If it's not, it's possible the dog will move down the 'dry' path, making SWXFY the next possibility there. All the same, excitement that produces itch is a hallmark trait of dogs that respond to Nettles extract, which is also a blood cooling herb, like QYT. That would be my next choice, I think.

Hope that helps. Congratulations again,

Steve

by mikemesley

February 21, 2010

Steve,

Having looked at nettles leaf and some info re it - it does appear this dog might be a good candidate. Would you supplement QYT with nettles long-term, or possibly use it when the itch gets worse due to stress/excitement? Currently we have continued on QYT and he is again doing very well - no Dampness side effects currently.

Thanks for your great guidance,
Mike

by naturevet

February 21, 2010

Hi Mike,

We do both, with Nettles. We use it BID for routine use, and go up to QID or even prn use when itch is severe. The only adverse event to watch for is mild upper respiratory irritation, which is rare, and disappears within a day following cessation of use. It can replace the need for any pred long term if it it still in use.

All the best,

Steve

by mikemesley

April 25, 2010

Hi steve,

Update on this dog, which we used to see very regularly (nurse's dog) but she stopped working with us a month or so ago, so haven't seen him recently.
Has been undertaking a very strenuous training program recently. Unsure about how his skin is going - haven't seen him yet(just trying to prepare a little while I have a spare moment) - but most importantly he has had 3 seizures in the past 3 days, his first ever. All seizures were very short, he was excited or exercising in lead up to all of them, seems fine between episodes.
Will see him today I think for acupuncture and exam so will have more info then.
Any ideas off the top of your head? Seems more like a TMGTY type from Hx, and I've always felt his heart was very prone to the effects of heat/fire.

Mike

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