Wondering if this disease pretty much follows the Steve Marsden (TM) Skin Flow Chart ideas behind skin disease, or if there are any other specific treatments anyone has had any success with?
Thanks again,
Mike
Question Details
Sebaceous Adenitis
by
mikemesley
-
February 22, 2010
Wondering if this disease pretty much follows the Steve Marsden (TM) Skin Flow Chart ideas behind skin disease, or if there are any other specific treatments anyone has had any success with?
Thanks again,
Mike
Replies
by
naturevet
February 22, 2010
Hi Mike,
Hoxsey has helped really severe cases. Look for the usual heat and strong superficial pulses.
For deeper pulses, persistent cystic lesions, Damp or Phlegm, and Heat, consider Xian Fang Huo Ming Yin.
Otherwise, go with a routine skin approach.
S
Hoxsey has helped really severe cases. Look for the usual heat and strong superficial pulses.
For deeper pulses, persistent cystic lesions, Damp or Phlegm, and Heat, consider Xian Fang Huo Ming Yin.
Otherwise, go with a routine skin approach.
S
by
mikemesley
February 25, 2010
Hi Steve,
Got to see the dog today. The parts of the history and exam I thought were relevant are included below.
History :
O said did become obviously PU/PD and hungry on preds when used previously. Probably suggest that preds not ideal for her long term.
In previous life (before skin issues) was often a very picky eater, often left food uneaten, has always been light. Has had tendency to loose poo long-term, but never severe diarrhoea as has been this last week or so.
Diet has always been Hills food - at one stage went to Hills Active to try to put on weight. Occasionally gets little tins of expensive tinned dog food. O has found it easy to do chicken/rice diet over past few weeks - happy with making food for her.
Scratching notably worse night times O feels.
Has had episodes of seizures when clipped/groomed by groomers in the past - especially when got excited/upset about clippers. This has not happened at any other time.
Since the skin issues were first noted the appetite has notably really increased. No increase drinking noted by O except when on preds.
TCM Assessment:
Pulse tending superficial, wiry, but yet slightly empty feeling.
Tongue - red with some purple, mostly centrally. Some whitish sticky covering.
Lesions distributed over much of body, but seem notably worse on dorsal body. BL/GV channels seem most involved.
So from this obviously heat is a key feature, as is Dampness I presume. But from history comes an obvious SP deficiency look (poor appetite before Damp Heat set in, failure to gain weight, tendency to loose stools etc)
and from pulse I felt there may be some Blood deficiency as well - despite dampness/heat signs there was still the "empty" feeling superficial pulse.
So I wasn't sure if this type of pulse still fits with Hoxsey, or if you'd think about SMS (SP support built in) on its own. With the seizuring - doesn't sound like BXBZTMT type seizure - more like a TMGTY type one. What about Modified LDXGT (with EMS) for this one?
A few ideas I've had, I felt the pulse was the key exam finding that might help, but would appreciate your take on it...
Thanks a lot,
Mike
PS - what "dynamic" dose cyclosporin tend to have when viwed from a TCM perspective. Likely to see any side effects in this dog?
Got to see the dog today. The parts of the history and exam I thought were relevant are included below.
History :
O said did become obviously PU/PD and hungry on preds when used previously. Probably suggest that preds not ideal for her long term.
In previous life (before skin issues) was often a very picky eater, often left food uneaten, has always been light. Has had tendency to loose poo long-term, but never severe diarrhoea as has been this last week or so.
Diet has always been Hills food - at one stage went to Hills Active to try to put on weight. Occasionally gets little tins of expensive tinned dog food. O has found it easy to do chicken/rice diet over past few weeks - happy with making food for her.
Scratching notably worse night times O feels.
Has had episodes of seizures when clipped/groomed by groomers in the past - especially when got excited/upset about clippers. This has not happened at any other time.
Since the skin issues were first noted the appetite has notably really increased. No increase drinking noted by O except when on preds.
TCM Assessment:
Pulse tending superficial, wiry, but yet slightly empty feeling.
Tongue - red with some purple, mostly centrally. Some whitish sticky covering.
Lesions distributed over much of body, but seem notably worse on dorsal body. BL/GV channels seem most involved.
So from this obviously heat is a key feature, as is Dampness I presume. But from history comes an obvious SP deficiency look (poor appetite before Damp Heat set in, failure to gain weight, tendency to loose stools etc)
and from pulse I felt there may be some Blood deficiency as well - despite dampness/heat signs there was still the "empty" feeling superficial pulse.
So I wasn't sure if this type of pulse still fits with Hoxsey, or if you'd think about SMS (SP support built in) on its own. With the seizuring - doesn't sound like BXBZTMT type seizure - more like a TMGTY type one. What about Modified LDXGT (with EMS) for this one?
A few ideas I've had, I felt the pulse was the key exam finding that might help, but would appreciate your take on it...
Thanks a lot,
Mike
PS - what "dynamic" dose cyclosporin tend to have when viwed from a TCM perspective. Likely to see any side effects in this dog?
by
naturevet
February 27, 2010
Hi Mike,
Cyclosporine nourishes and moves Blood. It doesn't quite fit this case, which strikes me as Damp Heat in origin.
Damp Heat is a Stasis Heat, which fits the purple red tongue; the seizures with excitement likely reflect Heat, perhaps Heart Fire. Aggravation by pred indicates Damp Heat. Increases thirst indicates Heat and the chronic GI issues signal the Spleen as the origin of all problems (diet, too. Try home-cooked).
The Tai Yang lesion distribution can indicate either severe Heat or Wind Damp Heat invasion.
I'd look at SMS as the basic formula, but also would use XFHMY to get the dispersing, moving and cooling influence the pulse and lesion distribution suggests.
Hopefully that will help.
Steve
Cyclosporine nourishes and moves Blood. It doesn't quite fit this case, which strikes me as Damp Heat in origin.
Damp Heat is a Stasis Heat, which fits the purple red tongue; the seizures with excitement likely reflect Heat, perhaps Heart Fire. Aggravation by pred indicates Damp Heat. Increases thirst indicates Heat and the chronic GI issues signal the Spleen as the origin of all problems (diet, too. Try home-cooked).
The Tai Yang lesion distribution can indicate either severe Heat or Wind Damp Heat invasion.
I'd look at SMS as the basic formula, but also would use XFHMY to get the dispersing, moving and cooling influence the pulse and lesion distribution suggests.
Hopefully that will help.
Steve
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