Question Details
Cluster Seizures In A Dog
by
KarenG
-
December 7, 2014 View Case Report
Replies
by
naturevet
December 9, 2014
Hi Karen,
The soft stools, dry coat, skin lesions and history of MMM have me thinking this is a Jue Yin Excess type of seizure. Especially if the seizures have often been in the middle of the night, it's a consideration. In that instance, you'd add Wu Mei Wan to your protocol, possibly in place of LDXGT if it hasn't produced much in the way of benefits. You could then modify the WMW by adding Tian Ma, Dan Shen and Yi Mu Cao, in the manner described in the CIVT lecture on epilepsy I gave last week.
If that doesn't help, then you'd want to explore the possibility of a Shao Yang disharmony by adding in Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang instead. But the general presentation best fits a Jue Yin Excess scenario. Initial improvements may either be in the number of seizures per cluster, or a lengthening of the interval between clusters, or some combination of both.
We don't believe that the herbs are markedly anticonvulsant, but instead normalize neural plasticity. These structural changes take time, but as long as the seizures are short and mild, you may yet be able to get by without anticonvulsant pharmaceuticals.
Let us know how it goes!
Steve
The soft stools, dry coat, skin lesions and history of MMM have me thinking this is a Jue Yin Excess type of seizure. Especially if the seizures have often been in the middle of the night, it's a consideration. In that instance, you'd add Wu Mei Wan to your protocol, possibly in place of LDXGT if it hasn't produced much in the way of benefits. You could then modify the WMW by adding Tian Ma, Dan Shen and Yi Mu Cao, in the manner described in the CIVT lecture on epilepsy I gave last week.
If that doesn't help, then you'd want to explore the possibility of a Shao Yang disharmony by adding in Chai Hu Jia Long Gu Mu Li Tang instead. But the general presentation best fits a Jue Yin Excess scenario. Initial improvements may either be in the number of seizures per cluster, or a lengthening of the interval between clusters, or some combination of both.
We don't believe that the herbs are markedly anticonvulsant, but instead normalize neural plasticity. These structural changes take time, but as long as the seizures are short and mild, you may yet be able to get by without anticonvulsant pharmaceuticals.
Let us know how it goes!
Steve
by
KarenG
January 20, 2015
Hi Steve,
thank you for the reply. After the above consultation ( the owner had driven 2 days to see us) we stopped the LDXGT ( 2 capsules in the evening is approx one teaspoon) and continued the BGT ( 4 caps in the AM) and the QYT( 2 caps in the PM). My rationale was that his appetite had reduced, and I was also thinking about sourcing or making the Wu Mei Wan as you suggested. He had 2 cluster seizures when he was due- instead of the usual 8. The owner did not use the rectal diazepam I dispensed, but instead used an icepack method to stop the seizures- which appeared to work this time.
However...
his genital inflammation had started to flare
he had vomited once- which apparently he never does.
His owner still reluctant to consider any conventional meds for seizures
2 weeks ago- which is only 2 weeks after the previous small cluster- he succumbed to prolonged severe seizures, and had to be seen at the emervgency vet.
He is now on Phenobarb and Keppra. He is groggy, ataxic, hungry, but seizure free.
my thoughts- his pattern maybe suggests Shao Yang Disharmony ( severity of siezures, response to GB points, nausea, superficial pulse, entire male, possible role of food).
Mozart will need to stay on his medications. I am not sure if the above herbs have been discontinued.
My plan is to slowly reintroduce the LDXGT, and also slowly add in CHJLGMLT, continue the meds, add in liver support, and monitor the seizures. I will keep you informed.
thank you for the reply. After the above consultation ( the owner had driven 2 days to see us) we stopped the LDXGT ( 2 capsules in the evening is approx one teaspoon) and continued the BGT ( 4 caps in the AM) and the QYT( 2 caps in the PM). My rationale was that his appetite had reduced, and I was also thinking about sourcing or making the Wu Mei Wan as you suggested. He had 2 cluster seizures when he was due- instead of the usual 8. The owner did not use the rectal diazepam I dispensed, but instead used an icepack method to stop the seizures- which appeared to work this time.
However...
his genital inflammation had started to flare
he had vomited once- which apparently he never does.
His owner still reluctant to consider any conventional meds for seizures
2 weeks ago- which is only 2 weeks after the previous small cluster- he succumbed to prolonged severe seizures, and had to be seen at the emervgency vet.
He is now on Phenobarb and Keppra. He is groggy, ataxic, hungry, but seizure free.
my thoughts- his pattern maybe suggests Shao Yang Disharmony ( severity of siezures, response to GB points, nausea, superficial pulse, entire male, possible role of food).
Mozart will need to stay on his medications. I am not sure if the above herbs have been discontinued.
My plan is to slowly reintroduce the LDXGT, and also slowly add in CHJLGMLT, continue the meds, add in liver support, and monitor the seizures. I will keep you informed.
by
KarenG
January 21, 2015
PS- should I also add in the Tian Ma, Dan Shen and Yi Mu Cao,- or begin as above and modify with these later?
by
naturevet
January 21, 2015
Hi Karen,
To summarize, then, the dog is on no particular seizure formula, because you didn't yet start the WMW to go with the QYT. If that is correct, given the rationale you provide, it does seem like these are Shao Yang seizures. Do they occur mostly at night? That would suggest Jue Yin excess. But if they mainly occur anywhere from, say, noon to 2 am., that would suggest Shao Yang. If the dog tends to gain weight, I'd suggest a Shao Yang approach. if it loses weight, I'd suggest a Jue Yin approach.
Regardless which one you settle upon, bring the formulas on line as quick as you can, since they tend to work long term anyway in reducing cluster seizure tendencies and prolonging (gradually) the seizure-free interval. An elimination diet, or at least an unprocessed grain-free diet, seems to especially expedite the cessation of seizures in Shao Yang cases, but helps tremendously in Jue Yin excess.
Hopefully the above helps you decide what to try. If you use LDXGT + CHJLGMLT, you could add in some additional Tian Ma (Gastrodia). The other herbs are more to adapt WMW to use in epilepsy.
Steve
To summarize, then, the dog is on no particular seizure formula, because you didn't yet start the WMW to go with the QYT. If that is correct, given the rationale you provide, it does seem like these are Shao Yang seizures. Do they occur mostly at night? That would suggest Jue Yin excess. But if they mainly occur anywhere from, say, noon to 2 am., that would suggest Shao Yang. If the dog tends to gain weight, I'd suggest a Shao Yang approach. if it loses weight, I'd suggest a Jue Yin approach.
Regardless which one you settle upon, bring the formulas on line as quick as you can, since they tend to work long term anyway in reducing cluster seizure tendencies and prolonging (gradually) the seizure-free interval. An elimination diet, or at least an unprocessed grain-free diet, seems to especially expedite the cessation of seizures in Shao Yang cases, but helps tremendously in Jue Yin excess.
Hopefully the above helps you decide what to try. If you use LDXGT + CHJLGMLT, you could add in some additional Tian Ma (Gastrodia). The other herbs are more to adapt WMW to use in epilepsy.
Steve
Reply to this question.
You must be logged in to reply